Kim (00:01.513)
Hi, Manira. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am excited to get reacquainted with Ayurveda. know we, you and I had a chat and we have a recording in my membership. And then you had reached out because somebody had messaged you and you said, I think I better update Kim on a little bit more of what I've been doing. so I wanted to now, because I have a podcast since we did the group recording, I wanted to learn a little bit more about what you've been up to and more specific about
Ayurveda, which is the work that you do and how it pertains to pelvic health. So if you would start us off by just telling us a little bit about you, what brought you to Ayurveda, and then we'll start to dive into what actually is Ayurveda and more particulars down the road.
Muneera (00:51.991)
OK, thanks, Kim. Thanks so much for having me. Always fun to chat with you about Ayurveda. And I just want to say I'm coming in from Salt Spring Island today. And I like to do a land acknowledgement before I start. So I'd just like to say that this is the ancestral unceded lands of the Halkaminum and Senchottin-speaking people where I am. And I'm honored to be on this land and be doing my Ayurveda coaching work. So my coming to Ayurveda story is kind of interesting. So I'll take a few minutes.
I actually didn't come to Ayurveda until I was 20 years old. I grew up in India in a family of Western doctors. And there was the little white pill for everything that came up in my body. And I was always curious. I was like, but why or what is this? And so I went along with the practices of my family until at 20, I met this Ayurvedic teacher here in Vancouver, actually.
I'd moved over to Canada then. And I was immediately intrigued by his way, his relationship with the world, the sense of presence he had. And so I started volunteering at this Ayurveda center in Kitsilano, actually. And then I was all of a sudden working there. I was practically living there. We were just, I was like a sponge just absorbing everything I could from this amazing teacher. You know, what a gift to find a teacher like that. And
sometime into it, maybe a year or so, I just started feeling different. And it was amazing. I started noticing a different amount of energy in my body. A lot of my issues had gone away. I had a level of calmness in my mind that I'd never experienced before. And I started to realize that, this is what health is. And I never even knew before.
And it's simply from just making a few little changes. I was eating a bit differently. I was starting to incorporate these practices that he was teaching us. Just really subtle things. And all of a sudden I felt like a new person. And since then, I've pretty much dedicated my life to studying Ayurveda, sharing it, and just helping people also have that sense of agency that I developed. And wow, these are the actions I can do to take care of myself that help me have this level of vitality.
Muneera (03:15.401)
and stay disease free. Because that's what Ayurveda is essentially about. It's a medicine system, but it mainly tells you the actions you need to do in your life so you can stay free of disease.
Kim (03:30.622)
Okay, so where does, I mean, that all sounds fantastic. And I think there's, there, in my opinion, has been a big shift since the pandemic where people became much more aware. We couldn't really rely on just our doctor visit. People saw a new way of healthcare being delivered online. And I think there's not yet as much as I would like to see, but there is more people.
Muneera (03:41.728)
Hmm.
Muneera (03:49.866)
Hmm.
Kim (03:58.962)
There are more people taking agency over their health to an extent. However, the sick care system, the kind of the Western medicine, the allopathic model still, I would say is what a lot of kind of from my generation older, maybe even my parents' generation older, that's just what they grew up with. That's what they are comfortable with. That's what they rely on. And they're less open to some of the other medicinal medicine.
practices, I guess. So you mentioned Ayurveda being a medicine practice. What exactly is Ayurveda and what type of medicine would it be?
Muneera (04:39.103)
Yeah, and I'm with you, Kim. Modern medicine is still the dominant. And I like to always acknowledge that every medicine practice has its strengths. And our Western medicine system is great at certain things. It's great at surgery. It's great at emergency care. And I use it for that as well. But there are other medicine systems, sometimes the more traditional ones like Ayurveda, that have different strengths. So I'd love to talk about that for a second.
So Ayurveda comes from a body of knowledge in India. It's the Vedic system of knowledge. It's also where yoga comes from. So Ayurveda is actually considered the twin sister science to yoga, and they traditionally go together. Ayurveda takes care of the body and all the diseases that come up in the body. And then yoga takes you into your subtler aspect, the mind union with the divine, if you buy into that.
What is Ayurveda? So Ayurveda is this tradition of, it translates to the science of life. Ayus means life and Veda means science. So it's really just a guideline on how to live a healthy life. And it takes into consideration your eating habits, your lifestyle, your rhythms, your daily rhythms in everyday life.
And it really links you to nature in a way that you are using natural rhythms and natural principles to heal yourself. So in that way, it's a very nature-based sort of medicine system. Yeah.
Kim (06:17.53)
And as you're talking, I'm thinking, really, I think this is what we should all be taught from a young age. If we could live in alignment with nature and alignment with, I think of a lot of people now talking about circadian rhythm and, you know, the foods that we eat. so when you're talking about the foods that we eat, the different practices for like there are are different types of people and there is something within Ayurveda called there's there's doshas.
Muneera (06:30.646)
Hmm.
Kim (06:47.112)
So can you explain what doshas are and is that the right term when we start to kind of pull out of Ayurveda, what would be applicable for me might be different from you based on our dosha? Is that an accurate way of saying that?
Muneera (07:00.447)
Yeah, exactly. So what's special about Ayurveda is that it doesn't really have blanket generalizations like a lot of the other practices. It's really looking at how you are unique. It considers every person unique. And this now, if take a step back, links to the five elements. So a very basic foundational principle that we should know about is that there are these five elements.
and the five elements make up nature and hence they make up human beings as well. And so understanding your dosha is basically understanding how these energetic principles are active inside you as a unique individual. And that sort of ratio of the five elemental energies is different for each person decided at conception. So when egg meets sperm, this is sort of a blueprint created of how these five
five elements of nature are working within you and you stay with that for life. And so the first step according to Ayurveda would be to understand what your dosha balance is. So the five elements, just really quickly, space or ether, air, fire, water and earth. Okay, I went from the least dense to the most dense in order. And these give rise to the three dosha's which are vata, pitta and kapha.
And I'm just naming them because anyone who reads further or goes into Ayurveda a bit more will immediately come across these three terms. And don't be scared. know, vata, pitta, and kafa are just really simple Sanskrit words that don't have an easy translation in English, so we've stayed with them. And they're talking about these five elemental ratios. And so a good first step for anyone curious would be to maybe read a little bit on vata, pitta, kafa and maybe do a self-assessment quiz.
Kim (08:38.078)
haha
Muneera (08:51.841)
to see if they can understand how much of Vata, Pitta and Kapha are playing out in their system. And then you go from there.
Kim (09:02.374)
Okay I have done this before and I can't remember I feel like I was Vata but I'm not 100 % sure. So what would be what are some characteristics of Vata some characteristics like if you were to generalize and I know that that's difficult to do but if you were to generalize who would be following in the category of Vata, Pitta and Kapha?
Muneera (09:17.589)
Mm-hmm.
Muneera (09:24.797)
Yeah, I do. I can generalize. do. And I think Kim, you would be Pitta and Vata mixed is what I get from you. So Vata is a combination of air and space, the first two elements. And you can just imagine the qualities of air and space, light, dry, mobile, subtle, cold. So Vata people will tend to have those qualities strongly in them. know, if you see me right now, I'm got
layers and layers on. I've got socks and bundles and sweaters. My warm cup of tea. I run cold. I tend to be dry in my system. I have a lighter physiology, like not as much muscle mass or dense body tissue. These are all qualities that come with Vata. Along with it will come like an energetic predisposition. So I'm a fast thinker and I talk fast and I'm spontaneous and I'm creative. You you can imagine like the things that come with light.
and airy things. So that's vata in a nutshell. Pitta is mainly fire element. So fire with a bit of water. And so pitta people tend to have that heat, sharpness, and intensity of fire. know, lot of your leadership positions, your CEOs, your politicians, your sports people, they've got that fire. They've got that ambition. They tend to have more medium musculature. They tend to be more...
active and goal-oriented. They do a lot more in their day, have a lot of energy. If you cross them, watch out, know, fire flares up and you can get anger or sharpness. Yeah, sharp words. But they're also very strong in their minds. They have that astuteness that comes with fire, transforming thoughts really well. Yeah, so you can imagine you're a Pitta person. And then the last one is Kafa, and they're made mainly of earth and water.
Kim (11:02.625)
You
Muneera (11:23.659)
the densest sort of heaviest elemental energies we have in nature. And so they're built broader, they tend to carry more muscle, carry more fat just naturally, broader frame, more slow moving, more relaxed, more calm. The flip side of that is that they're just more nourishing and generous. You know, they're really nurturing of people who just like, you feel so much love around and you know, they take care of you and you feel relaxed around them because they're not trying to do a hundred things and they're not.
distracted like the Vata person. That's your kafa energy and a nutshell.
Kim (11:57.888)
Yeah, so I'm a vata and my husband is a kaffir.
Muneera (12:00.374)
And it's a good combo, you know, you need each other to balance you out.
Kim (12:03.892)
Yeah. So when you talk about back to conception, egg meat sperm,
I know if this is known, could it like, is it passed down or traits passed down from mother father? Is it related to the environment where conception happens? Is it related to emotion at the time of conception? I mean, I'm just thinking like literally planting the seed, planting the seed for this person and what Ayurvedic dosha they will be. Is there, can you go back and be that granular?
Muneera (12:44.337)
You can definitely. So the Ayurveda is so complex and intricate and thorough, like I've never seen anything like it. So yes, it talks about all of that. In fact, there's a whole preconception process that the male and female go through to purify and prepare the body to create the best possible seed. Because the fertilized egg will be sort of influenced.
by the quality of the egg, the quality of the sperm, the quality of the uterine field, emotions of the mother, what she eats, what she's used to. All of these things will play out in what happens with the fetus.
Kim (13:30.211)
So then if we if we start to bring in pelvic health to this conversation, you've described the different doshas and based on a lot of the generalizations that you've said, particular to certain types of doshas, we could look at a calf a person maybe having more robust muscles in their pelvic floor. I'm just spitballing here but versus
Muneera (13:36.459)
Mm-hmm.
Muneera (13:55.637)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kim (13:59.885)
versus somebody like a Vata, maybe they're more slender, more slight, not as much muscle. Again, can we go that granular or how would you bring this into how we can nourish, how we can use Ayurveda to help nourish our pelvic health?
Muneera (14:17.823)
Yeah, great question. So the pathway of disease or imbalance can be so many different kinds, right? How imbalance starts, according to Ayurveda, is when your natural ratio of the three dosas, right? We all have our own ratio, starts to go out of balance. First, it'll start to go out of balance, then it'll start to overflow and start moving around your body and then that
imbalance of the dosha will lodge in an area of weakness. And it's such a big topic, so I'm really summarizing here. So all three vata, pitta and kapha can contribute to pelvic floor weakness in a sense from that perspective. And yet we understand the lower abdomen and the pelvis as a home of vata.
And there's a specific, we call it a sub-dosha, one specific part of vata that governs that area. And so we know immediately if something's happening there, there's a predominant quality of vata going on, regardless of what caused the imbalance. And also vata is considered the master dosha. It's the only one that moves. It's the only one that has mobility. Pitta and kapha are sort of more stationary. So if only vata can create the sort of imbalance in the body, move things from one place to the other.
So vata is always considered when there's a disease condition first. So yes, so in the case of pelvic floor weakness, we're immediately looking at vata because of the location of this. And then we're also looking at what else is going on in the person's physiology. Is pitta contributing? Is kapha contributing? And if I can take one more diversion here, Kim, bear with me. There's really two main pathways for disease in Ayurveda. One is through blockage.
Kim (16:04.291)
Please.
Muneera (16:12.191)
And that's when your digestion isn't working well or something in your system isn't working well. And there's accumulation in the body from improper digestion and metabolism. And that blockage in the physical channels and subtle channels starts to manifest as a disease. Vata plays a contribution in that, of course, has a contribution in that. And the other pathway to disease is depletion and degeneration. And it can happen from inadequate nutrition, from aging.
from so many different things like that. That also is governed by vata. So when I have a pelvic floor imbalance come to me or a pelvic floor weakness, I'm also looking at, it blockage? Is it weakness? Kapha might play more of a role in blockage, but it's resulting in a weakness that's vata. Does that make sense?
Kim (17:00.962)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the when I think of the blockage, the the most common blockage in terms of the population that I work with, and what I talk a lot about on this podcast, and in my work is constipation. So that blockage of inadequate digestion, which can be from inadequate nutrition, a lot of people with pelvic certain pelvic floor conditions may start to
Muneera (17:03.039)
Yeah.
Muneera (17:16.694)
you
Kim (17:28.662)
eat a very limited diet, a very particular diet, not a lot of diversity in what they're eating to try to help manage symptoms, which can then sometimes help relieve a blockage, but can sometimes maybe even create a blockage. So we can have a physical blockage, like in the case of somebody with like a rectocele. So let the certain type of prolapse, which can then potentially contribute to the development of poor digestion. And we can also look at it from a like the vice versa.
perspective where poor digestion can then maybe even contribute to something like erectus heel, but so you've talked a lot about, you know, back to the start of the podcast, the all the different ways that we can use Ayurveda and its lifestyle and its habits and its nutrition. So from a nutrition perspective, as I understand it, different dosha's would benefit from different eating styles or different
Muneera (17:58.871)
Hmm.
Kim (18:26.979)
types of food, different temperatures of food. Can you talk a little bit about that in terms of how we can help alleviate a blockage like constipation and improve things from a digestive perspective?
Muneera (18:38.995)
Yeah, and I'm glad you named constipation because it's one of the key factors even from the Ayurvedic perspective when you look at pelvic floor. It's one of the most crucial things to take care of when we start to treat these kind of disorders. So diet, yes. Each of the dosas is recommended to eat slightly differently. You we're still talking about the same sorts of foods. We're looking at getting all the taste.
you know, sweet as in protein and carbohydrates, bitter as in green leaves and vegetables, know, your fats, et cetera. So we're all eating the same thing, but it's about one, how much of each you're eating. A couple of person who's generally easy, builds easily and carries more weight might need less of the carbohydrates, less, you know, simple sugars, et cetera, less fat. They may need a little bit more vegetable matter to create the lightness, a bit more protein, right? That'll...
help manage the metabolic style that their body is in. A vata person is going to need much more quantity, frequency of nourishing food that's easy to digest. So a vata person, their weakness is digestion. That flame, what we call the flame of digestion, we call it agni, is always just a, it's like a flame in the wind, imagine, right? It's like a little bit flickery, you never know when it's going to be strong. So they need to favor,
warm, well-seasoned, soupy, cooked foods that you can imagine are easy to digest will prevent that sort of blockage that comes from dryness and coldness in a vata person in the colon, right? A little bit more fat, oily foods are really good for vata. And then maybe some support to make sure that flame is strong. So if someone came to me with a vata imbalance, I would give them some spice mixes or something to
have at their lunch and dinner so that they have a little bit more health with digestion. Your pitta person now in the middle, they're medium, they have a strong fire, right? They burn fast. So they're going to need a little bit more heavier diet. They'll need more protein. They can take a substantial amount of carbs, but they need the vegetables because they need to alkalize the system. Pittas can tend to run a little acidic, if anything, just from the olive fire in the system.
Muneera (21:01.953)
So Pitta person might need to eat three substantial meals. They can probably take a little bit of raw food because they have so much heat in the system. They can probably have a little bit of salad and be OK, but they have to really pay attention to fat and protein, or else they're going to burn through their food really quickly, start snacking, get hangry, like all the things you want to avoid for a Pitta person. So there's some general guidelines like that. And then you can also really go down that rabbit hole and look at specific foods and vegetables and fruits that are
beneficial to each of the three energies. And you know, that's a little bit more complex and I don't think everyone has to start there. Just looking at general recommendations for what to put on your plate or general guidelines for how to prepare your food or how often to eat. I think that's a great place to start for the three doshas.
Kim (21:47.694)
Okay, well, I feel like you've nailed me because the blend between the two as you were saying, I definitely prefer warm foods for sure. I like soups, like stews, I like bowls, but they if I was going to have a salad, eating a salad to me, I love vegetables, but I always want something warm. It has to have warm meat on top of it or something like that because I'm not a fan of the cold foods. So yeah, I feel like you I feel like you nailed me there.
Muneera (22:15.956)
It's so nice when it resonates and you get the basic concepts. That's my favorite thing.
Kim (22:21.19)
Yeah, yeah, it's I just find it so fascinating. know, food is let let food be medicine and medicine be thy food type thing that that saying, right? I feel like that's always the place that we should be starting is looking at what we're eating and how we're eating times of day we're eating types of food we're eating start there first, and then we can go down the path of other things to come in and supplement or potentially even need medication for but
I just think food has such a powerful way to help us heal that isn't so overlooked when we think of the general allopathic medicine model. So how would you say, so from, we've talked about the nutrition perspective, maybe let's bring in a lifestyle piece now. Coming back to pelvic health. let's say somebody was dealing with some incontinence. We can get even more granular.
Muneera (23:01.248)
Hmm.
Kim (23:19.035)
granular, they were dealing with the urgency incontinence, let's say. So somebody who feels they get very strong urges to go to the bathroom, maybe even those urges come about quite frequently. What would you, maybe from a nutrition perspective and also from a perspective, you would first want to know their dosha. And then, so let's say this was a vata.
Muneera (23:39.584)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (23:44.869)
let's go through the three different types. If this was the symptom manifestation in a vata and in a pitta and a kaffa, how would you approach that?
Muneera (23:53.023)
Yeah, so the symptom you're describing is considered a Vata symptom. Right? So the management is going to be Vata, regardless of what the backdrop of the dosha is. So urge incontinence or frequent urge, you immediately know that the Vata in that area of the body has been triggered. So of course, you start with diet. I'd recommend the Vata pacifying diet we just talked about. I'd recommend a Vata pacifying routine.
Which means one, first and foremost, consistency every day. Eating your meals at the same time, sleeping at the right time at night, 10 p.m. ideally, getting eight hours of sleep, rising early, know, 6 to 6.30 a.m. And I'm just going to talk about sleep for a second here because one of the main things that increase vata in your body are improper sleep or sleeping late or skipping sleep, right?
So sleep is key. Consistency is key because the nervous system stimulation in vata is generally more. And the more consistent your routine, the more your system relaxes. And there's such a nervous connection to the frequent impulse for urination, right? So you want to, as much as possible, and soothe the entire nervous system of a vata person, especially when out of balance. So sleep, consistent routine, vata pacifying foods.
Managing stress in the mind so you're not always bring in a grounding breathing practice like a long exhalation, Ujjayi or Nadi Shodhana, alternate nostril breathing, something like that. Vata's have a subtle quality. Subtle practices go a long way for Vata. Just slowing down, doing some breathing. If they're able to walk in nature or meditate, things like that. It's incredible how much of a difference it makes. Not rushing, not taking on too much.
you'll see a direct difference in just the nervous impulses in the body as well, even with the lower, apana vata area. And the last thing that I want to mention, which is really, I think, one of the best kept secrets in Ayurveda, is using warm oil on the body for massage. It's called Abhyanga, and it's one of the best medicines preventatively and then for treating any disorders for vata.
Muneera (26:15.893)
And it's just, you know, if you call it self massage, you take warm oil, ideally something that's good for your physiology. So sesame, for example, is a good one for vata, untoasted sesame. And there are amazing medicated Ayurvedic oils that I recommend to people as well. And you just do a warm oil massage all over the body in a downward direction. You know, you're not stimulating, you're calming. So downward in the direction of the hair growth. Head, body, feet, put some in your ears.
and then have your shower in the morning. It's before shower practice. And the effects it has on Vata is just astounding. It balances the whole Vata regulation in the body, tones the nervous system, the musculature, the skin, stimulates the digestion, supports sleep, immune system. And if you're talking about pelvic floor weakness, you would just take a little extra and massage in the pelvic area.
lower abdomen, around the perineum, the genitals. In Ayurveda, we do what is called localized treatment a lot for prolapse and pelvic floor weakness. And we won't get a chance to talk about it probably here, but I just want to mention that you can just take any good food-grade healthy oil that you're using and apply it right inside your vagina and massage it. And the oil goes right in there and strengthens the muscle in a localized way that...
considered one of the best remedies for pelvic floor weakness in Ayurveda.
Kim (27:45.647)
Well, let's take some time to explore that because I think that everybody would want to know. just a couple of quick questions before we go there. I think about a lot of there's one practitioner I know he I think he calls it the big six from a lymphatic drainage perspective. And he has some points that he directs you to, you know, rub six times, then pat six times around your collarbone, side of your neck under your armpits by your breasts, your abdomen, your groin.
behind your knees and so would using a warm oil maybe even like I guess my question is also essential oils do essential oils come in and would they be I would think strategically used depending on your dosha as well to help stimulate that digestion and so that I guess I'll get you to answer that question first so is it similar to
lymphatic drainage? Is it kind of coming in and doing something like a lymphatic drainage practice would do?
Muneera (28:52.36)
Yeah, it definitely is. As soon as you're massaging, you're promoting circulation and movement of fluids around the body. So it's doing that. And if someone's doing that practice, yeah, use oil and do it if you're a vata person. Right? So much better. So it's doing that, Kim, and it's doing a lot more. There's something that happens just from using oils because of the property of the oils. So we talk a lot about qualities in Ayurveda, right? So if a vata is cold and dry and light,
The thing that would balance them is bringing in the opposite quality. And so think of warm oil. It's heavy, it's warm, it's unctuous or oily. So immediately you're hitting so many of those vata triggers and qualities just by using warm oil. And then there's an act of rubbing it. So we also describe in Ayurveda that your body can absorb oil, not just in the skin, it's going into all...
what we have seven tissue layers in Ayurveda, it's going all the way to your seventh tissue layer when you do massage. So you're not just working with your skin, obviously. And in five minutes, you are targeting all your tissues. But then we say, keep rubbing your body. You if you have 10 minutes, even 15, that act of stroking the skin with warm oil has an effect on a nervous system that just hitting the six lymphatic points won't quite do. So yes, it'll do that, but it does way more to...
to do the whole body and use the warm oil in sort of an intentional practice.
Kim (30:26.395)
And as you're saying, basically anything to do with the pelvis is Vata and Vata. So what can we how can we balance? And part of it was the calming of the busyness and the rushing and all of the stuff that you were talking about earlier. And so just the practice of the oil has its warmth and oiliness and and combats the drive. But it's also the simple act of doing it is
Muneera (30:30.634)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (30:55.944)
helping us slow down and like I can just picture myself being like, hey, I'm rub it here, I'm gonna rub it there, I'm gonna get this done as fast as possible but it's the act of slowing down. It's part of an act of nourishing your body and trying to slow down.
Muneera (31:08.183)
100%. And actually, the word we use for oil is called snehana in Sanskrit. It also means love. And it's not a coincidence. So the self-oil massage equates to self-love or cultivating lovingness in your body. And I feel most of us can use that, and especially Vata people.
Kim (31:32.243)
So then back to the oil in the vagina. Again, even if somebody was a pitta or a kaffa, if they were dealing with a pelvic floor, pelvic health challenge, it would be vata that we would want to come in with. So a vata type oil, regardless of whether you're a pitta or a kaffa. Is that accurate to say that?
Muneera (31:35.54)
Mm.
Muneera (31:53.136)
It's, maybe let's just pause there for a second. So for the way we start to choose oils is again by their properties. Cooling or warming is the first thing we look at. And a Vata person runs cold, you know that feeling. You will choose a warming oil. Sesame oil is warming, Ghee, almond oil to an extent is warming. So these things are nice for Vata. A Pitta person might find it's too hot to use a warming oil.
Kim (31:55.74)
Okay.
Muneera (32:21.473)
So they might do the same practice with a coconut oil, which is more cooling. And they'll get the benefits of the oiliation and the soothing and the strengthening without the generation of the excess heat that might not feel good for them. Pafa, again, runs a bit cold. They'd use a warming oil. So I think you might choose your oils specifically based on your dosha, even if you're using oil. Yeah.
Kim (32:45.309)
Got it. Okay, so then once you've chosen your oil, what would the practice be it when you're talking about massaging the inside of the vagina, this would be with with fingers, I'm assuming, how long what types would it be strokes, would it be applying pressure? How would somebody how would somebody participate in this practice once they've chosen their oil?
Muneera (32:57.216)
Mm-hmm.
Muneera (33:08.575)
Yeah, so the whole point of Abhyanga is to get its transterminal absorption of oil. So the focus is not, you know, like a deep tissue massage or anything. It's really about getting that oil to absorb across the skin. And so that's why I talked about a lot of strokes, because the back and forth creates sort of heat and stimulates absorption. So the technique, there's no rocket science here, really. It's get that oil across the skin.
Same thing applies to your vagina. In that area, again, there's naturally a lot of heat. There's a lot of vasculature. It's a great place for the body to naturally absorb things. So you don't need to do a whole lot. Usually as part of my massage, at the end of my massage, I'll just take some extra oil. I'll insert my fingers. I'll go around. You you teach this all the time. I know I've been in your massage classes. So you just really are coating the inside of your vagina with oil.
creating a little bit of warmth there with a little bit of movement. And the body does the rest. It's incredible. Actually, you put your finger back in there a few minutes later, and you'll notice the oil is gone. It absorbs it so fast. One thing I wanted to say while we're talking about this, Kim, is just a small bit of caution. If there is more of a blockage-type imbalance going on in the body, there would be a little bit of pretreatment.
Kim (34:19.869)
Wow.
Muneera (34:35.464)
before moving into oils. So I would first give that person some herbs maybe to stimulate their digestion and to break down the blockages because I'm talking about blockages here in the channels of the body, not just you know constipation or anything but in the tissue. So there may be a few weeks of work with a herb to create the free movement in the body, remove or burn off any impurities sitting in the system.
and then moving to oil. So just a word of caution because I wouldn't want someone to just start using oil when there's heaviness sort of blockages in the body. They might not feel as good. It might make it worse. So just assess first where you're at before you start using the oil.
Kim (35:17.972)
Got it. And with the herbs, I'm assuming there's different types of herbs based on your dosha. And then are these herbs that you would add to food? Is it that you would drink as a tea? Would it be something you would take as a capsule or put on your skin? what would the delivery mode be of the herbs? And maybe if you could mention a couple of the more common herbs that you would recommend.
Muneera (35:39.23)
Yeah. So the Ayurvedic pharmacology of herbs is incredible. my God, we have hundreds and thousands of plant medicines made into complex formulations. just, you know, to remind you Ayurveda is at least 4,000 years old. And if you sit in a herbal formulation class, you'd be amazed at how intricate and complex the processes are. So we have formulations that have 10, 20, sometimes 30, sometimes up to hundred herbs in it.
Okay, we have incredible medicines. I have some reputed companies that I bring them in from India. And you can go that route. There'd be powders. They're now these days made into capsules for ease. Often you'll have to boil it for 15 minutes at home if you go that route. They're made into decoctions as well. They could be in a base of ghee or oil. So there's different methods of taking them. But you know, can rest assured that
Kim (36:09.194)
Bye.
Muneera (36:37.77)
They are easy to take these days. They're not as labor intensive as it used to be. There's been some progress in Ayurvedic herb making, which is nice. Otherwise, most people would not take them, I think, in the West. It could be labor intensive. But mainly, there are different parts of plants made into a formulation. And sometimes, you might be just given a powder that you boil into a tea and drink through the day, or a powder that you just add to your food and mix in and eat as part of your meal. So it can be as simple as that.
And so I would first work with some spices in the kitchen, Kim. You know, that would be a food recommendation. And then if I were to add herbs, more targeted herbs on top of that, they would be less known herbs that come from India. So nothing I can kind of mention here and say, you go and buy that. It would probably be a mix that I would recommend that you buy from an Indian Ayurvedic company. But there are, can I say one more thing? So it.
Kim (37:25.406)
Right.
Kim (37:32.298)
got it. Mm-hmm, please.
Muneera (37:36.534)
pelvic floor weakness in Ayurveda, again I was saying it's localized treatment, there are herb powder mixes that are made into like a pack and applied to the perineum traditionally. There are vaginal douches, know, soaking a tampon and inserting it in for more oil absorption in there. There are catheters, you know, that go into the urinary tract. I know it's a little scary to think of, but there are all these
Kim (37:45.673)
Mm-hmm.
Muneera (38:05.94)
kind of more complex method that most practitioners like me can't use in the West because it's not part of our guidelines. But you could also go to India and work with someone there and go through a more elaborate process. We call it panchakarma. And this is really great for issues that are chronic or that are not being fixed by your just your oral topical medicines.
And it's a bit more of a commitment, but there's a system called Panchakarma in India where you commit, you know, four to six weeks, but you go through an entire detoxification, natural detoxification using plant medicines. And then with that clean slate of a clear body, there's an incredible rejuvenation medicine practice after that helps build back and fix channels and pathways in the body that have had damage or have become weak. So this rejuvenation.
is really great for pelvic floor weakness too. You can bring back vitality to that muscle in such a good way through something we call panchakarma for anybody who's curious to look it up.
Kim (39:12.116)
I love that. I want to go to India now. I've always wanted to go to India, but now I want to go even more. before we wrap up, as you were talking, probably six months ago, I don't remember exactly how long. So, you know, the way that Munira and I know each other was from back when I was presenting at the South Community Birth Program in Vancouver.
Muneera (39:14.358)
Hehehe.
Kim (39:36.157)
I would come in and teach the connecting pregnancy groups about pelvic floor health as it pertains to pregnancy and postpartum recovery. And Munira was one of the facilitators for those groups. So I used to work predominantly with pregnant women, new moms, and for a long time, that was the majority of the population that I served. And I started Belly Zinc and we were trying to bring practices from elsewhere around the world and we were bringing in belly wrapping and the, you were talking about the
perineal compress, the different practices that other cultures use that in, like if you were to speak to an allopathic Western medicine doctor, they would consider that hogwash. They would never even consider it. We need 50,000 random control trials before we can even talk about this. But they were still embraced and I just feel like there's so much power that we don't see here in North America. But anyway, the point of my story.
A gal had sent she has created a vaginal steaming device. traditionally, you would sit over a pot of water with a sort of a almost like a birth stool in a way it was like a little stool with an opening and you drape maybe a dress or towels over you or sheets. And you would allow the steam with herbs to infuse the area and this has been used in practices all over the world.
And so she has created a more modern day version, temperature controlled. It's actually a seat. It also has red light therapy in it, which I'm a huge fan of red light. And so I posted with my surgery when I had my rectuselar repair, I was using red light as part of my healing and everybody was like, wow, that's really great. I think that's awesome. Where do I get the red light from? And then I posted a photo of me sitting on this.
forget the name of it, I'm sorry for the woman who created it, the Leomoon, Leomoon seat. So I'm sitting on the Leomoon seat and I got torn apart because it was basically the Gwyneth Paltrow versus the Jen Gunters of the world. I'm thinking it's still red light, it's temperature controlled, it's a traditional practice and anyway.
Kim (41:55.559)
I was torn apart for this post, which I found interesting. And so maybe we don't have millions of RCT trials about the benefits of this practice. And I don't know if there's research about Ayurveda or not, but I think I want to open people's minds to the possibility of something other than just Western medicine. And as you said, trauma, emergency.
If you need a pharmaceutical for an injury, think, or sorry, for an infection, I think we're very fortunate to have those as practices. But just listening to you speak about things, I think there is so much wisdom that we are missing. And I'm so grateful for people like you who are, even though you're not in India, you're bringing the practices here, maybe with a few limitations, as you said, there's not as much that you can do here. But I just think that we...
I hope this plants the seed for somebody who maybe has tried so many other things and they're looking for something else. Maybe you don't have to go all the way to India. Maybe you could work with somebody like Munira. But keep your mind open to possibilities beyond Western medicine and pharmaceuticals. I just think there's such a rich opportunity there. just like, as you say, I would like to go to India and cleanse my body and see what happens, right? I feel like I'm in a pretty good state of health, but
What if it could be better? What if it could be better? Yeah.
Muneera (43:21.302)
Hmm.
Kim, as you were talking and you said keep an open mind, something came to me, can I share? I don't think I mentioned castor oil, did I?
Kim (43:28.447)
Mm-hmm, please.
No, I love castor oil. Please talk about that.
Muneera (43:34.58)
But it's one of those things that has such a bad rep here in the West. It's the thing that creates awful diarrhea and cramping in the system. It's one of Ayurveda's favorite oils, possibly the king of oils, we call it. And I want to just invite people to try doing their perineal and vaginal massage with castor oil. In Ayurveda, it is supposed to have the most muscle ligament tendon strengthening properties.
from all of the oils. And I hadn't mentioned it, so I realized I should just quickly put in a plug for our favorite Ayurvedic oil, which is castor oil. Yeah.
Kim (44:11.359)
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of castor oil and castor oil packs. I've been using those for a really long time. I don't want to name the person who I recommend because recently she's been like approached by the FDA and she has huge limitations put on her and it's just so I don't want to I don't want to
Muneera (44:30.69)
gosh.
Kim (44:32.019)
Anybody who wants to know, please email me and I can tell you the person who I like from a castor oil perspective, but I don't want to name her here because I don't want to get her in trouble and I don't want to have to take down this podcast because of it. but yeah, thank you. I love, I'm a huge fan of castor oil for, for so many things. So thank you for bringing that. And as I understand it, it's also, if I think back again to the postpartum population with caesarian scars and even, perineal from episiotomies or from tearing, castor oil can really help.
Muneera (44:41.696)
Ha ha ha.
Kim (45:01.575)
mobilize scar tissue as well. So if we're doing any scar tissue work, that's another fantastic oil to use to help with that as well.
Muneera (45:10.798)
beautiful.
Kim (45:12.137)
Yeah. So where can people find you to learn more and potentially to work with you?
Muneera (45:18.608)
Yeah, my website, radiantlivingvancouver.com. Contact me from there. Yeah, I offer a 20 minute discovery call for anyone who's curious about what Ayurveda can do for them. So we'll just chat about what what's going on for you and what the approach would be if we were to work together. So that's a really easy way to access me. really my my passion and my mandate for my work is just to bring Ayurveda.
to people here in a simple, practical, accessible way. My passion is also women's health. I feel like we've had the short end of the stick for too many generations. And really bringing agency and care to women is what I would love to do. I've been in the maternal peri... What is it?
Kim (46:13.493)
Prenatal, postpartum, perinatal, yep.
Muneera (46:14.24)
prenatal postpartum area for so many years. And so, you know, just a quick plug for Ayurveda has great approaches for prenatal and postpartum care for women. That is also not as much known as I would like it to be. So all of those areas, I'd be happy to support any women in. Yeah.
Kim (46:32.349)
Amazing. Thank you for your work. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your time with us today. And I'll have all the links to be able for people to be able to reach you, whether it's social media through your website in the show notes.
Muneera (46:46.272)
Thank you, Kim. It was such a lovely conversation. Thanks again for inviting me in.
Kim (46:50.271)
You're welcome.
